Wednesday, August 19, 2009

Boy, that escalated quickly... A lively debate

Well, well, well... it appears that my good friend Jeff has stirred up a little controversy here in Big10 country. Jeff had a post yesterday called "WHO HATES IOWA?!?" where he talked about the biggest villains in the Big10 as far as Gopher fans are concerned. Jeff listed 5 teams, but clearly the crux of the post leaned heavily on Iowa. Clearly every Gopher fan is entitled to their opinion, and several probably would put Wisconsin in the top spot. I, however, wholeheartedly agree with Jeff, in that Iowa is also my least favorite team.

In any case, Jeff's post struck a chord with some Iowa fans. How many we don't exactly know because several of the comments were posted anonymously, which is perfectly fine. What isn't fine, however, is the tone that this debate began to take in comment-land. Actually, I should rephrase that. The tone of the debate doesn't bother me so much as the language of the debate.

Look, I drop a cuss word every now and then (as far as you know), and I've been privy to hearing Jeff drop one or two as well. However, we do our best to keep it out of our writing. We would also appreciate it if those commenting kept it out of their writing as well.

In response to this, as the originator of this blog, I have deleted all of the comments from the "WHO HATES IOWA?!?" post. However, in the interest of full disclosure, lively debate, and fairness, I have copied and pasted all of the comments below, but I have censored the cuss words. I have taken the liberty of replacing these cuss words, and you will find the replacements in (parentheses and italicized). This is a family blog, and I don't mind the discussion, I just don't like some of the language in a public forum.

Please enjoy the debate if you haven't already been enjoying it, and please feel free to join the debate as well.

One more thing, just for the record, Kirk Ferentz was 4-19 in his first two seasons at Iowa. That's a .211 winning percentage. It will make sense why I mention this after you read a few comments.

-----------------
cappszilla said...

I will never forget, as a kid growing up in the post-Lou period of Gopher football, the phrase "I cheer for Minnesota and anyone who plays against Notre Dame." There are plenty of reasons for the average Joe football fan to hate Notre Dame, and a very special reason for Golden Gopher football fans to hate them.

I HATE IOWA!

Anonymous said...

55-0

Jeff said...

Ok so apparently Iowa fans are clever AND can use the internet! Maybe they're not so afraid of electricity after all. I'm going to go out on a limb though and say that "55-0" comment was not sent from a building more than 2 stories tall- unless it was a barn.

PSD said...

it's a barn and inside are goalposts that still read Property of the University of Minnesota

Anonymous said...

Tim Brewster FIGHT WIN HARD TRY WIN will take the Gophers back to prominence RAH FIGHT WIN TRY HARD VICTORY!!!!!!.

Gophers, you suck. And you suck bad.

55-0. It happened - even if Brewster doesn't include it on his website. Losers.

Jeff said...

As much as I would like to defend Anonymous' last comment, it's unfortunately true: the official Gopher athletics site has no game story or recap of the 55-0 loss.

http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=38609&SPID=3280&DB_OEM_ID=8400&Q_SEASON=2008

This is a little sad, but not unlike the Hawkeyesports.com failing to mention all the many, many, many, many player arrests the Hawkeyes have had in the past couple years.

Although I guess if they devoted all of their time to writing about player infractions, there wouldn't be space for anything else.

Anonymous said...

Actually, Jeff, that isn't like that at all. That's a horrible analogy, but I wouldn't expect anything less.

Anyone else find it funny that Jeff spares no time to mention Iowa's run-ins with the law but negates the (sexual exploits of the) gophers?

Jeff, I realize FIGHT WIN HARD TWITTER Brewster has you frustrated. But don't be so (dang) stupid.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=5482644

Jeff said...

The Gophers well-docmented run-ins with the law happened under Mason's watch and with his players. Brew's Crew has had academic issues to be sure, but unlike Ferentz kids' (including his actual own kid, center James Ferentz, who's been busted twice in 6 months for public intoxication as a minor but is still on the team) they've steered clear of the police blotter to this point.

Is it true Ferentz is holding film sessions in the Iowa City clink so all of his players can attend?

And stupidity is part of my charm. I just FIGHT TRY WIN my way through it.

Anonymous said...

Jeff,

Ferentz's own kid hasn't been busted twice for public intoxication. He was given a ticket for being in a car that had alcohol in it - and was busted for one intox this spring.

But why let facts get in the way of your little mouth-breathing rant?

Brewster's kids have academic issues? Color me surprised. Their coach can't even add up his (gosh darn) record correctly.

Remember the bull(crap) he posted on his FIGHT WIN HARD VICTORY TCF STADIUM Twitter bio?

"Minnesota Head Coach Tim Brewster has 21 years of coaching experience. Prior to joining the Maroon and Gold, Brew served tenures under coaching legends Mack Browm (sic), Marty Schottenheimer, and Mike Shanahan. Brewster has coached in 10 Bowl games and played in two as a player at Illinois. In total, Brewster holds a coaching record of 113-61-1 (.645). Coach Brewster also has made headlines as an outstanding recruiter. He has inked the likes of NFL stars Vince Young and Chris Sims (sic) at Texas and Alge Crumpler at the University of North Carolina."

...Uh, Tim, that's not your record, buddy.

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2009/6/10/905173/wow-thats-a-really-nice-record-hey

Defend him. Go ahead, I'm waiting with my thumb straight up my (rear).

M. Cello said...

Awesome blog. That's all.

Anonymous said...

(Screw) that. This blog is the equivalent of the Bleacher Report.

Jeff said...

Ok first off this article from espn.com states James Ferentz was sited for underage alcohol possession and had to attend counseling.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4047459


That's a little different than the picture you painted.

Second, you want me to defend what Brewster says on Twitter? Really? That's the be-all, end-all of what matters in a coach is his Twitter account? He's over-the-top optimistic and exuberant, which can definitely rub people the wrong way. Still, while I don't always agree with his style, or his Twitter comments, what he's doing is working. Recruiting has improved drastically and in just his second season he's already gotten the program in better shape than Glen Mason could get it in a decade. And, unlike Ferentz, Brewster's kids stay out of handcuffs.

Finally, you've done a great job making my point about what Iowa fans are like. Thanks and good night.

Anonymous said...

I didn't paint (diddly), Jeff. I typed. Painting is for (I've just deleted this altogether, but will keep...) Iowa State graduates.

What Brewster is doing is working? Holy (gee dang crap) balls.

If what you want is AWESOME EXCITED YES EXCLAMATION losing seasons and an 8-17 (that's around .300 for those of you scoring at home) record... well, you can take it, I guess. I'd rather (do an unnatural act) with a tire iron, but that's just me.

Bellanca said...

I'm just planning on doing Michigan this year like we do Minnesota every year. That will be fun. We have a new term for it: "Doin' Minnesota to ..." It's a Coen Bros. thing. Accents like "Raisin' Arizona ..." We're looking forward to "doin' Minnesota" to RichRod, and that little frosh QB he thinks is so good. My god. Have you seen Clayborn, Angererererererer, Binns, and Ballard lately?

And you dopes with your crime obsessions, we live in a small town and 300 lb NFL linemen stick out, which I know is something you're not used to (because you don't, like, produce good linemen?) so the po-leece-men take them downtown if they are hitting the PBR and trying to get invited to sorority parties, or whatever it is that is so cool about being 20 and talking to drunk girls. (Don't know, I like my girls sentient.) It's what you do before black powder season opens. We don't get a lot arrests during hunting season. Then the cops are out killing living beings. Anyway, ...

GO POW HOPE OH (POOP) PLEASE????? WE'RE (MESSED UP) AGAIN YAY NOT MY FAULT good luck, you really got whomped last year. Can you recover?

Don't think so.

17 comments:

Bellanca said...

Thank you for making this blog safe for my Missouri Synod pastor and delicate spinster GO KRUMKAKKE LEFSE IN JULY WHOO GOPHERS RULE THE KITCHEN aunt. Man, you guys are l-i-t-e lite.

Anonymous said...

Wait, this is a family blog?

Does that qualify as child abuse if you let your child watch the poundings that Iowa gives Minnesota on a yearly basis?

Hawk Fan in Chicago said...

Unfortunately, some of my fellow fans at Iowa do not practice the same decorum as people who were born and raised to watch the Hawks. I think we can all agree that our respective programs have issues with many of our fans. I have seen classy and classless fans from Iowa, and from Minnesota. In fact, I've seen the same two groups at every stadium I've visited during my time at Iowa.

If someone wants to hate Iowa, that's fine, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'll congratulate the Gophers every few years when they beat the Hawks, and I'll party on the turf of the Metrodome when we win the 2002 Big Ten Championship. I won't rip down your goalposts, break them like a wishbone, and then take them out of the stadium. And I certainly won't be a jerk (I'll refrain from the swearword that you can all imagine) to any place that will host our fan base.

I can tell you which team I absolutely despise, it's Michigan. I carry myself with class whenever we face the Wolverines though because at the end of most games, they're the ones pointing to the scoreboard. Remember that record we've had over the past three decades, and remember that Floyd is OUR PIG. I doubt the record of the Gophers will be better at The Vault, or whatever witty name the fans dub your new stadium. However, at the end of a good game, I'll congratulate all of you for your win. I still will scream at the top of my lungs for the Hawks, until I'm horse because I'm as passionate of a fan as anyone.

Patrick said...

If you don't want to invite less than civilized responses from Iowa fans when you write a post claiming that you hate them the most, in the future I suggest that:

1) Don't use as evidence that the state has a large rural population, and no cities in the top 100 in size. That makes you about as clever as a Jay Leno writer. You should try to be better than that. And in case you haven't been south of the Twin Cities, 75% of Minnesota looks EXACTLY like the portions of Iowa you are slamming. So maybe you are a self-loather?

2) Don't use arrest records as evidence. Iowa didn't have three football players get convicted of getting a 18 year old girl drunk, having non-consensual sex with her, and then masturbate on her face while she was passed out and while their buddies recorded it on their cell phones. That was Minnesota. And since Iowa City's a small town with very little real crime, unlike Murderapolis, the cops have nothing better to do than wait for football players come out of the bars and pick them up for underage drinking. Did you drink in college, Jeff? Thought so.

3) I am an Iowa fan residing in MN, and I think you're mistaking the fact that Iowa fans come out in droves and take over your hometown for games for actual douchebaggery. Every bar I was in before 55-0 had Iowa and Minny fans celebrating together, and making fun of each other's teams in a good-natured way. Every fan that I saw, from both teams, was polite. There were certainly overly-exuberant fans on both sides that made asses of themselves. However, just because Iowa fans are experienced tailgaters who come out in droves ten hours before kickoff, doesn't mean they're jerks. When you guys get outdoors, you will eventually learn that tailgating starts ten hours before kick-off, not two, and you will learn how to have a good time and play nice with everybody rather than resent their enthusiasm.

Jeff said...

Patrick,

You make some good points, a few of which I will concede. Jer and I were some of the very few Gopher fans who stayed to the bitter end of the "Game Brewster and Gophersports.com Refuses to Acknowledge", and the Iowa fans there weren't the classiest or best, but after beating the bejeezus out of the Gophers and having the full 3+ hours to continue to get lubed up while watching the game, I know most fans in that situation would be the same way.

However, that was my last and most vivid view of Iowa fans, but you're right, the majority are good people and the rivalry between fans of both schools has been mostly good-natured. I let my hatred of the 55-0 loss and the impression that left me with of Iowa fans color my judgement on them as a whole. I do have buddies that either went to Iowa or are fans, and yeah, we get along fine.

75% of Minnesota does NOT look like Iowa, considering we have 10,000+ lakes, and Iowa has Lake Okoboji and that's about it. Definitely parts of the south and west of Minnesota looks much the same, but 75% is quite a stretch.

Finally, the arrest records. Yes, some horrible things happened during Mason's tenure, but that's my point: it was Mason's kids under his watch. So far, Brewster has not had the same issues with player's he's recruited.

As for Ferentz and all the Iowa arrests, Google "Iowa football arrests" and see what comes up. All of it happened under your current coach. Yes, Iowa City is all about the Hawkeyes and EVERYBODY knows the football players. I realize Hawkeye football is 1 through 25 of the favorite team of most every Iowegian (except for the poor souls who either have to or choose to cheer for the Cyclones. God bless them, that can't be easy), but this is no different than most other schools in the Big Ten (I would exclude the Gophs and Northwestern, both for overall fan interest and city size), SEC (excluding Vandy and Kentucky), and the Big 12.

There are MANY college towns in this country where the D1 school is the only show in town, or in the state, where everybody knows the football players and where they all like to have a good time (and for the record Patrick, yes I did tip a few back in college and even- GASP! SHOCK! AWE!- before I was 21. I expect Fox 9 News to do a "Gopher hockey players drink under age!" type expose about it any day now) and yet very few have had the legal problems Iowa has had the last few years. Underage football players and students drink at every college in the country, and many are in either small towns or cities where the college is the biggest thing going, and yet they don't have the arrest record the Iowa football program does. Why is that? You tell me.

To say that the Gophers past transgressions under a different coach justifies the many arrests of Iowa players under your current coach doesn't seem to be much of an argument.

But yeah, calling all Iowa fans dbags because of the actions of a few thousand after a 55-0 thrashing wasn't fair, so my apologies on that one.

Anonymous said...

Jeff,

Who gives a flying fartknocker which coach the transgression happened under?

You are quick to point out that, under Ferentz's guidance in the first two years, the Hawks had a worse record than what Brewster's been able to do with the Gophers.

But, of course, you neglect to point out that, in those two years that Iowa sucked more than Brianna Banks, there were relatively no off-field issues.

See this stupid, stupid circular logic? Using that same line of thought, if Brewster (God, I can barely type this without pissing my pants in laughter) brings you goofballs back to prominence... you'll struggle with off the field issues. An asinine assertion..but one that can be made using your logic.

Jeff, you suck at arguing. You suck at football. I know I cuss, but at least I'm smart.

If you wanna keep getting pwned, respond. If not, go put in the tapes from the glory days of Gopher football and drift awa...nevermind. They didn't have video cameras in the 1920s and 30s.

Jeff said...

For a self-proclaimed smart guy, you're making very little sense.

The legal issues for Ferentz's players stretch back to 2007. They were 6-6 that year. Last year they went 9-4. New Year's Day Bowl worthy, and 55-0 better than the Gophers, but far from great in a down year for the Big 10.

Instead of calling me stupid and talking tough, please answer why it's ok for Iowa to have all of these run-ins with the law when they're winning or when they're barely managing to finish at .500 when other programs win more than Iowa does and don't have the same issues.

Saying the Gophers will have all of the arrests Iowa will when we start winning just because it's happened at Iowa more than anywhere else is a non-sensical argument. But then again I'm stupid, so what do I know?

Anonymous said...

Jeff,

Drinking tickets aren't arrests. They're glorified traffic tickets.

Get over it.

Leave it to a Gopher fan to focus on off-the-field issues instead of..gasp..football.

Patrick said...

Jeff,

Thanks for your response, and concessions. Absolutely correct that Iowa lacks lakes, etc. That wasn't really my point, though. my point is that Minnesota is as much a rural population as Iowa, so the rural, redneck jokes are somewhat out of place. In fact, along with WI, MN and IA routinely rank the highest in student achievement, ACT scores, etc.

Please visit Kinnick this year, and you'll see what cordial hosts IA fans are at the tailgates.

As for arrest records, a PAULA (underage drinking ticket) isn't an arrest. I don't have the time to Google the exact numbers, but if you remove the underage drinking, Iowa has had the two idiots that stole a credit card, the three (two?) accused of sexual assault, and a 300 lb. lineman getting a DUI on a moped. The rest are underage drinking, underage drinking and shouting in a parking garage, and underage drinking and pissing on the side of a building. Not exactly career criminals. Just college kids doing what every other dumb college kid does. And that's not me excusing it - they should know better, but again convince me that the MN football players aren't drinking at the Corner Bar or Sally's and pissing on the side of the building.

Anonymous said...

Minnesota players don't drink at the Corner Bar or piss on the side of the building.

They're too busy WAITING FOR TCF STADIUM TO OPEN THE FUTURE IS HERE VICTORY WIN FIGHT GOPHER PROUD!

Funnelcake said...

Jeff,

Brewster has been coach for what 2-3 years and you want to point out Ferentz's players transgressions over the past 2 years. Well I suppose that it is pretty convenient to cherry pick the details you want to make your point.

But Ferentz has been coach at Iowa since 1996, and while the latest crop of troublemakers that have been brought in at Iowa has been disappointing to Iowa fans and the like- we will see if Brewster can even make it coaching the gophers for 10 more years. If Brewster can get it going here and avoid the pitfalls of having a program that even matters in Mpls, let along the big 10 or the nation then we can revisit it.

Matt C. said...

Hawk in Chicago and Patrick make excellent points, well said.
Okay, at the risk of being called a pussy I want to extend an olive branch of sorts. I'm not going to mention last year any further, I won't call THC Park (or whatever) "The New Kinnick North" until after we beat you there, I won't taunt your fanbase except in extreme circumstances, and I won't have sex in any of your bathrooms (that last one's more of a guideline than a rule, really). However, I do reserve the right to call you Goofers on occasion. Also, I will continue to enjoy "The Camp Snoopy Experience" (after four tabs of acid). And do you want to know why? Because we SHOULD beat you. I don't mean it in a talk trash kind of way, but seriously, we shouldn't lose to you very often. Our teams are generally better.
I'm not being a dick, I mean it.
My entire life I've known this rivalry. I was 3 when you moved into the Hump-free Dump, as I grew up calling it. (Who knew it would be prophcy?) And as long as I can remember Minnisota fans have ALWAYS talked crap to Iowa fans. A-L-W-A-Y-S!!! But as you said, we've "out and out owned Minnesota for the last 3 decades." So why would you continue to talk crap?
Now, to borrow your analogy from the Badger write-up, that's like McLovin repeatedly getting up after having the holy-hell kicked out of him by Brock Lesnar, and saying "Bring it."
However, I concede on the societal superiority of Minnesota as you possess the aforementioned "Camp Snoopy Experience" and the multi-talented Prince (or whatever). Wait, he is still alive right?

Jeff said...

Matt C., you'll be disappointed to know the "Camp Snoopy Experience" is now "Nickelodeon Universe." I know, just not the same.

Lee said...

Jeff, I don't know how you can have so much patience, man, because every Iowa poster here has come off as an A-hole to me.. the occasional good point made only makes for sugar-coated crap.

Anonymous said...

RE: And, unlike Ferentz, Brewster's kids stay out of handcuffs.

Hello?????? WTF! Vandesteeg?? Daniels? Jones? Massey?? Whaley??

"Mason's watch?" You are a liar or an idiot, possibly both.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't coach punky the coach in 2007?

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2007/04/07/three-gophers-arrested-in-sexual-assault-case/

Anonymous said...

Wasn't coach punkt the coach in 2008?

http://blogs.twincities.com/gophers/2008/01/gophers-not-responding-yet-to.html